Discussion:
New iPhone brings face recognition (and fears) to the masses
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Jim_Higgins
2017-10-29 20:23:50 UTC
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New iPhone brings face recognition (and fears) to the masses
http://tinyurl.com/y9k95nqj
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nospam
2017-10-29 20:37:11 UTC
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Post by Jim_Higgins
New iPhone brings face recognition (and fears) to the masses
the only people who fear it are ignorant of how it works, or they have
a vested interest in a competitor and are worried just how far behind
they are.
Eli the Bearded
2017-10-31 00:30:24 UTC
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Post by nospam
Post by Jim_Higgins
New iPhone brings face recognition (and fears) to the masses
the only people who fear it are ignorant of how it works, or they have
a vested interest in a competitor and are worried just how far behind
they are.
Depends on what you mean by "fear". I "fear" it's going to have a lot of
nasty failure modes. One that comes to mind:

I know someone who flipped their car. Airbags went off and one smashed
her glasses into her face. Swollen, bruised, slight bleeding. Would she
be able to unlock her phone?

Another: Movember is upon us. People will grow moustaches for the month
and shave them off in December. Will that break things?

Will it work for someone with a lazy eye that wanders on it's own? (Will
it reliably work for people who aren't white?)

Elijah
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hasn't seen nearly enough answers to know what other questions to ask
nospam
2017-10-31 01:46:18 UTC
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Post by Eli the Bearded
Post by nospam
Post by Jim_Higgins
New iPhone brings face recognition (and fears) to the masses
the only people who fear it are ignorant of how it works, or they have
a vested interest in a competitor and are worried just how far behind
they are.
Depends on what you mean by "fear". I "fear" it's going to have a lot of
nasty failure modes.
nothing is perfect, and its failure modes aren't nasty.
actually, the one that comes to mind is one you *didn't* mention, and
that's identical twins.

there's a very high chance that one twin can unlock the other twin's
phone.

of course, identical twins are used to fooling teachers, friends, and
even parents, so it's not surprising they can fool a phone, at least,
with today's technology. that will no doubt improve over time.
Post by Eli the Bearded
I know someone who flipped their car. Airbags went off and one smashed
her glasses into her face. Swollen, bruised, slight bleeding. Would she
be able to unlock her phone?
most likely, yes, but in that situation, the appropriate action is to
simply hold the side buttons to activate the emergency call screen,
without needing to unlock or dial anything. that also can be done from
an apple watch.

<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208076>

your question could be asked about any unlocking method. what if
someone's hands are injured such that they can't authenticate via a
fingerprint sensor, or even use their fingers to use the phone at all?
Post by Eli the Bearded
Another: Movember is upon us. People will grow moustaches for the month
and shave them off in December. Will that break things?
no.

in fact, face id is designed to handle that very situation, something
which apple has explained.

facial hair, eyeglasses, makeup, wearing a scarf, hat or even a
motorcycle helmet, is not an issue.

do note that some sunglasses (but not all) block infrared light, so if
the person is wearing ones that do, or they have something covering
their entire face, such as a surgical mask, then face id won't work.

also keep in mind that a fingerprint sensor doesn't work in all
situations either, such as when wearing gloves or if one's fingers are
greasy or wet.
Post by Eli the Bearded
Will it work for someone with a lazy eye that wanders on it's own?
yes.

there's an option called attention detection to detect if you're
actively looking at the phone. those with eye issues will probably want
to disable it.
Post by Eli the Bearded
(Will
it reliably work for people who aren't white?)
yes.

apple tested face id with over one billion faces of all genders, ages
and ethnicities from all over the world. skin colour is not an issue.

apple also tested photos and mannequins so it can't be fooled.

apple has already explained these situations, which is why i said those
who fear it don't know how it actually works.

it really is quite a bit more advanced than existing face unlocking,
which is why i said that those with a vested interest in competitors
are worried.

most importantly, apple does not gather any facial data. period.

facial data is stored entirely on the phone in the secure enclave. not
even apps can access it.

all apps can do is get a yes/no authentication, just as they have been
doing with fingerprints.

it even uses the same api, so any apps that currently use fingerprint
authentication will work with face id on day one, no update needed.
Eli the Bearded
2017-11-02 06:49:56 UTC
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Post by nospam
most importantly, apple does not gather any
facial data. period.
facial data is stored entirely on the phone
in the secure enclave. not
even apps can access it.
Sounds like apps can gather their own facial data to store off the
phone:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-iphone-privacy-analysis/app-developer-access-to-iphone-x-face-data-spooks-some-privacy-experts-idUSKBN1D20DZ

Elijah
------
what's wrong with using Capitals?
nospam
2017-11-02 14:29:46 UTC
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Post by Eli the Bearded
Post by nospam
most importantly, apple does not gather any
facial data. period.
facial data is stored entirely on the phone
in the secure enclave. not
even apps can access it.
Sounds like apps can gather their own facial data to store off the
just a depth map is available, not the actual face data, and the user
must grant permission for the app to access it.

it's *very* secure and apple has a white paper if you want to find out
more.
Eli the Bearded
2017-11-02 18:13:12 UTC
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Post by nospam
it's *very* secure and apple has a white paper if you want to find out
more.
Very secure is having a phone that can't do that at all.

Elijah
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just to get definitions straight
nospam
2017-11-02 18:21:04 UTC
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Post by Eli the Bearded
Post by nospam
it's *very* secure and apple has a white paper if you want to find out
more.
Very secure is having a phone that can't do that at all.
very inconvenient too.
Eli the Bearded
2017-11-02 19:21:43 UTC
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Post by nospam
Post by Eli the Bearded
Very secure is having a phone that can't do that at all.
very inconvenient too.
Apparently your entire life has been very inconvenient then.

Elijah
------
but now the Kool-Aid sets you free
nospam
2017-11-02 20:16:27 UTC
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Post by Eli the Bearded
Post by nospam
Post by Eli the Bearded
Very secure is having a phone that can't do that at all.
very inconvenient too.
Apparently your entire life has been very inconvenient then.
less so every day.

Jolly Roger
2017-10-31 19:55:13 UTC
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Post by Eli the Bearded
Post by nospam
Post by Jim_Higgins
New iPhone brings face recognition (and fears) to the masses
the only people who fear it are ignorant of how it works, or they have
a vested interest in a competitor and are worried just how far behind
they are.
Depends on what you mean by "fear". I "fear" it's going to have a lot of
nasty failure modes.
There's nothing at all to fear since you can always fall back to
entering the pass code.
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